Alain Badiou

topic posted Fri, February 27, 2004 - 5:08 PM by  offlineAdrian
I'm just starting on Badiou, as with Agamben also. Who here knows them and can help out?
posted by:
Adrian
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Alain Badiou

    Sat, March 6, 2004 - 12:59 PM
    i'm pretty handy with badiou's ethics and politics, but not so much is ontological framework, though i have a feel for it. agamben is less familiar, but feel free to ask questions, there are always people around.
    • Re: Alain Badiou

      Sat, March 6, 2004 - 2:20 PM
      i got the impression from the book i'm reading right now about badiou that his ontology is pretty strongly inseperable from his politics, ethics, etc. (which is part of why i'm having so much trouble with his ideas... his ontology is-- how do you say?-- nutty? (at least as far as i can understand it (not very far))).

      isn't his whole idea of truth, commitment, and subjectivity founded on his ontological ideas about the event as a break in a situation (or something (emphasis on the 'something'))? and isn't his ethics based on his idea about a subjects commitment to truth (or something)?

      ok, i'm gonna level with you-- i have no idea what i'm talking about. this is what i've been able to glean so far, and it's not making much sense to me. do you think you could shed some light on badiou for me, at least by pointing out the ways in which i've misunderstood him? i thank you in advance. :)
      • Re: Alain Badiou

        Wed, March 10, 2004 - 2:49 PM
        oh you are probably right about the inseparability thesis, i just don't like his ontology, so i deeply want it separate. i think that to make sense of his idea of an event you have to start back with deleuze and work up.... specifically, read badiou's deleuze and see if you get that, i think i did two years ago.... i don't know if i can reconstruct it without review, but which book are you reading now?
        • Re: Alain Badiou

          Wed, March 10, 2004 - 4:41 PM
          i'm actually just reading a book about badiou (aptly titled "badiou"; by peter hallward). i don't know french, and i've gotten the impression that not a lot of his stuff has been translated. (is that correct?)

          based on what i understand of his ontology, i must say that i'm not a big fan either. or, more to the point, i think it's kind of... well, ridiculous. (i will, however, be the first to admit that this may be my deficient understanding, not his wacky ontology.)

          i recognize that this is almost certainly an absurd request, but could you sketch his ethic/etc. for me? i haven't gotten that far in the book, and its trajectory so far leads me to believe that it wouldn't be very productive to skip ahead. i'm kinda wondering if i should even keep going, to be honest. i'm not super impressed by what i've seen.

          or how bout this (perhaps not so tall an order): what do you find particularly helpful/inspiring/sensible/etc. in his ethics/etc.? actually, that interests me more anyway.
          • Re: Alain Badiou

            Sun, March 28, 2004 - 8:04 AM
            well, i'd have to go back and reread, but two things appealed to me, one was his reversal of universality in that he argues that truth in terms of ethics is not the universal, it is the personal or more precisely subjective and perspectival, and that universal lies elsewhere most likely in judgement ala kant via onara oniell, but i'm not convinced i interpretted that right. the second was that rule-based systems such as rights are morally bankrupt in that they do not create positive change, just limit certain types of negative effects. this parallels some thoughts i've had on positive and negative freedoms from isaiah berlin.
            • Re: Alain Badiou

              Mon, March 29, 2004 - 3:12 AM
              I agree with Jeremy. I have to re-read Badiou, but the idea of arguing Truth in terms of ethics can't be universal. Ethics dictates a method or proper mode of behavior or 'manual', if you will, of what one should do. This, hence, presupposes the idea of what one shouldn't do. Ethics (I am not defining it here for that is another discussion) would have to be subjective based on the aforementioned should or should not ideals. And everyone knows that the little word 'should' carries with it the huge idea of morality and all it encompasses and no matter how hard the two try to be demarcated many problems are encountered.

              This definitely makes it a subjective (not necessarily perspectival) ideal which obviates the idea of Universal. It wouldn't be perspectival from the person acting or thinking the act, for they would not know whether it is ethically right or wrong. I am willing to go so far and say that they may think it is ethically/morally right. Or 'should' I say they may feel that they 'should' and 'would'.

              The system failed them. They have no milk for their baby. They are just setting things 'right'.(Starving baby, steal milk for baby, self-moral perspective is either 1)clouded, 2)right, or 3)not right or wrong). However, being veiwed from someone else or perceived by someone else not walking in their shoes, it would automatically be stamped one way OR the other. As long as the 'OR' exists, there can be no universal system of ethics. Everyone's perspective is different but with regards to two aspects just explained.

              The second I would also agree with. It's choosing the lesser of two evils, for a lack of better words. Limiting negative defects, which you know would occur, necessarily decreases the probability of the negative defects occurring and hence increases the positive ones. So proportionally speaking, the percentage is a 2 point swing. Every negative defect averted automatically equals a positive and vice-versa. However, the former is the hopes of the entire 'ethical system'. As Jeremy says indirectly to create a positive change.

              Now the idea that rule-based systems are morally bankrupt in that they do not create positive change may and probably is true as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But this is just one of life's paradoxes. Freedom is not free. In order for order to be maintained because of the idiots that don't want to pull their own share, we needed to invent currencyway back in the caveman days instead of we all work doing what we are good at and provide for each other.But that would be Utopia he we have rules, laws, police, judges, and everything that follows down that road that all evolved from the archaic fiefbecause of the simple idea of property and what's mine is mine and what's your's is your's.

              Not to offend anyone, I never read anything by Kant that was worth while except for his Critique of Pure Reason and Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals. Simply put, he argues that the human being is an end in himself, not to be used as a means by others and has the capacity for self-government and autonomy and hence morality. (Well duh, his own which>>> Even though, here I find problems with his Categorical Imperative. But that's, once again, another discussion.

              -Sweet Wheat

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