I have two pet peaves that I must share with a hopefully sympathetic audince...
1) Anything with a modicum of narrative self-awareness or reflexivity is deemed 'post-modern'. Witness the movie 'Scream'.
and
2) any form of analysis that decomposes its object into parts is referred to as 'deconstruction'.
Grrrr! Okay, thanks for that catharsis.
1) Anything with a modicum of narrative self-awareness or reflexivity is deemed 'post-modern'. Witness the movie 'Scream'.
and
2) any form of analysis that decomposes its object into parts is referred to as 'deconstruction'.
Grrrr! Okay, thanks for that catharsis.
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 2, 2005 - 9:06 AMAMEN, Brother Barnaby.
last night i was a victim of this manipulation of words and ideas. i was accused by my Composition Pedagogy professor of "fearing the deconstruction of myself" because, after being warmly invited into class discussion, i mentioned that i don't like the sexism innate in the feminist approach to teaching composition. He drew a timeline all the way back to ancient greece and said, "you are here...where men believed that only certain people are worthy to learn," and he placed feminist pedagogy near deconstuction/post-modern. he went on for several minutes. He was on me like a duck on a june bug and never gave me a chance to explain my stance. funny, the class discussion was about making sure that minority voices are heard in a safe environment. what a joke... the chalk is his weapon of choice, to put me in my place and make his prowess known. this was my feminist defender, berrating me in front of my peers, other women and men, for having a differing opinion? to dissent is to embody an ignorant or sentimental throwback who is afraid to face the implications of sexist realities?! what if i don't like the rationale and have my own!?
how subtle and self-deceptive was that little scratching out of centuries of thought. a trite little chalk summary.... of me... of feminism..deconstruction... post-modernism.. that board was erased so easily, as was my respect for him. the dust may as well have been my blood falling silently into the aluminum tray as we gathered our books and left ....
i learned my lesson.
anyway, so many things are equated and related falsely to the all-powerful god-ideas: post-modernism and deconstruction.
GRRRR! okay, thanks for that catharsis as well. :) -
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 2, 2005 - 10:26 AMThose who can, do .... those who can't, desconstruct gender differences.
So often our thought masks its burried Other - our desire to liberate is our own Will to Power, our attempt to challenge hierarchy masks our desire to simply replace it with our own. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 2, 2005 - 1:35 PMNow THAT is wisdom i can use :)
where are you, Barnaby? I'd rather be there...
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 9, 2005 - 6:56 PMCheers Barnaby. Shall I just throw my dissertation (in which gender differences in Aristotle are deconstructed) down the toilet now?
*laughing*
I realize it has to do with parricide. But perhaps we can replace it with something more life-enhancing than the regime of the brothers... -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 12:07 AMHey - I'm as happy as the next humanoid to deconstruct gender in Aristotle.
Should be pretty easy ... after all, didn't all those dead white-ish male Greek philosophers bonk one another behind the Symposium? I seem to remember something about that in Phaedrus. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 1:11 PMHa ha... yup, stroll down the river with me Phaedrus... tell me what you know.
Sure it's easy. I'm not sure how easy it is to do well though. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 2:34 PMIf anyone can do it well, Emanuela, I have no doubt that you can. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 2:58 PMOne would imagine that the presence of such doubt (at least regarding oneself) is in fact a prerequisite to "doing it well"... alas... :) -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 3:17 PMSelf-doubt is a pre-requisite to good performance? -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 3:40 PMWell... one might argue that, at least since Descartes, doubt in general is a prerequisite to philosophical "performance", if that is indeed what we are engaging in when we do philosophy...
certainly it's an aspect, I guess.
Too much self-doubt is crippling though, indeed. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 3:48 PMWell, there is a difference between epistemological doubt and doubt of one's own abilities. I may be wrong about my perception of external objects, but I do not doubt that if I have to I can write a pretty good paper on my doubt of external objects.
I believe in the incorrigibility of perceptual states. I may be wrong, but I cannot be wrong about how things appear to me.
May I ask what aspect of Aristotle you are engaging to deconstruct? -
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Re: two pet peeves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 4:58 PMOh, I don't think the two kinds of doubt are so easily separated actually. Does one really have more epistemological access to oneself and one's internal states, capacities? Perhaps we need to consult Dr. Freud about that...
My work focuses on how A's ideas about sex and gender in his biological writings are intertwined with his physics and his metaphysics.
Et toi? -
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Re: two pet peeves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 5:11 PM>>> Well, there is a difference between epistemological doubt and doubt of one's own abilities.
>> Oh, I don't think the two kinds of doubt are so easily separated actually
Hmm. Maybe we're talking about different things.
In my eyes, the only thing they have in common is the word 'doubt'. The doubt of the skeptic is an epistemological position, while doubt of one's abilities has an altogether different source, psychological and emotional.
> My work focuses on how A's ideas about sex and gender in his biological writings are intertwined with his physics and his metaphysics.
That seems true. His idea of human conception, for example, is an extension of his dichotomy betewen form and substance, with the male contributing the form and the female contributing the substance. That corresponds to a widely-held attribution of structure to a masculine principle and substance to a feminine principle that we find all over the world.
Why do you think that is?
> Et toi?
I'm not deconstructing anybody, I'm just talkin'. -
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Re: two pet peeves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 5:45 PMThe motivation for the two kinds of doubt may well be different, but I was just proposing that there may be a structure of untraversable alterity in both cases (no prima facie epistemological access to one's own mental states, if you wanna use analytic lingo).
Aristotle undertakes an elaborate systematization of the form/matter (NOT substance! The question of substance [ousia] in Aristotle is quite different!!); active/passive; masculine/feminine dichotomies in cosmological, physical, biological, and metaphysical registers like nobody else. I'm not remotely qualified to speak to "what we find all over the world!" What texts/belief systems are you referring to? -
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Re: two pet peeves
Thu, March 10, 2005 - 6:08 PM>I was just proposing that there may be a structure of untraversable alterity in both cases
Ohhh....look how technical you're getting! You're all serious now - I love it!
Does this mean anything more than "They are both cases where we aren't certain"? ;)
>Aristotle undertakes an elaborate systematization of the form/matter (NOT substance! The question of substance [ousia] in Aristotle is quite different!!);
My bad.
>I'm not remotely qualified to speak to "what we find all over the world!" What texts/belief systems are you referring to?
Oh, heavens! You're not actually going to make me work for that one, are you? Everyone knows earth gods are female and sky gods are masculine.
You've got your Yin and your Yang in Taoism:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_yang
You've got your Yabyum in the Tantra of India and Tibet:
www.britannica.com/eb/article
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Re: two pet peeves
Fri, March 11, 2005 - 4:37 PMBarnaby -
Yes, I do understand the basics of those thought-systems, though I balk from making claims about them without some serious study (which I believe might also involve being on some sort of spiritual path and not just plucking them off my supermarket shelf). I guess I would again refer us to historical specificity. Buddha lived around the time of the dawn of Western philosophy in the middle east... there was clearly some sort of intellectual ferment in that area as a crossroads...
Given the speculations around, say, Indo-European as a proto-language, there's definitely something to the idea that these ideas might share a common cultural root.
Were you pushing toward a claim that had something to do with universals? If so, I think you'd have to do a lot more work to make that one good.
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Unsu...
Re: two pet peaves
Fri, March 11, 2005 - 4:04 PMHave you read Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble"? I think her argument would make his pedagogical chalk go limp ;)
~S.
"In her most influential book Gender Trouble (1990), Butler argued that feminism had made a mistake by trying to assert that 'women' were a group with common characteristics and interests. That approach, Butler said, performed 'an unwitting regulation and reification of gender relations' -- reinforcing a binary view of gender relations in which human beings are divided into two clear-cut groups, women and men. Rather than opening up possibilities for a person to form and choose their own individual identity, therefore, feminism had closed the options down.
Butler notes that feminists rejected the idea that biology is destiny, but then developed an account of patriarchal culture which assumed that masculine and feminine genders would inevitably be built, by culture, upon 'male' and 'female' bodies, making the same destiny just as inescapable. That argument allows no room for choice, difference or resistance."
from: www.theory.org.uk/ctr-butl.htm -
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Re: two pet peaves
Fri, March 11, 2005 - 4:38 PM"In her most influential book Gender Trouble (1990), Butler argued that feminism had made a mistake by trying to assert that 'women' were a group with common characteristics and interests."
What? Maybe it's 'cuz I'm a guy and I'm obtuse, but to me it seems prima facia absurd to doubt that 'women' constitute a group with common characteristics and interests, just as 'Dixiecrats' or 'left-handed people' constitute a group with common characteristics and interets.
"...reinforcing a binary view of gender relations in which human beings are divided into two clear-cut groups, women and men."
Uhhhhh...what? Last time I checked, biologically speaking, you will pretty much fall into these two categories, unless you have experienced a developmental perturbation of some kind. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Fri, March 11, 2005 - 4:43 PM"Were you pushing toward a claim that had something to do with universals? If so, I think you'd have to do a lot more work to make that one good."
I would be extremely reluctant to use the term 'universal', with the metaphysical baggage that I associate with it. I would be much more prone to say there is a tendency for certain clusters of images to recur across cultures. It's the Jungian in me.
It doesn't take Carl Jung to figure out that whether you grew up in Greece or Swaziland, you'll probably notice that women participate in the creation of new persons in a way that guys just don't. So when you're sitting around the campfire with the other savages and you start telling stories about where the corn comes from, you might think it has something to do with that same generative process. Next thing you know you have a Demeter.
I think something like that is going on. I wouldn't want to justify it a priori on this Tribe - it would take more like several large books.
I am interested in hearing more on the idea of universal ideas of gender from the feminist theory persepective, since I know nothing about it. -
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Re: two pet peaves
Sat, March 12, 2005 - 1:18 PMBarnaby - in general, feminist theory is roundly suspicious of universals about gender and essentialism regarding "what it is to be" a woman, (tho' of course you have your Mary Dalys...).
Of course, the fundamentally different roles of women and men in reproduction are going to be major fodder for symbolic representations in myth and so on... but I don't think we can draw any necessary consequences flowing from biology to culture from that. There seems to be an infinite number of ways those differences could be interpreted and mythologized...
Of course, we in the West do live within certain legacies that make, to take your example, the association of women with "fields to be plowed" apparently self-evident. But frankly I think it's sort of arrogant to imagine that what is self-evident to us has some sort of broader objectivity that might be "universal." I mean, what does it even mean to *want* to have a universal theory about these thoughts of things? What does it give us, and why should we want one? I guess this is the anti-Jungian in me...
:)
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Re: two pet peaves
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 9:43 AM"where corn comes from"
actually, read Mary Daly on this one. oh, shoot, i think it is Daly. she describes quite the opposite. we knew about the natural reproductive processes of animals and plants, particualrly for Daly the relationship between bulls and cows, long before we applied these ideas to ourselves. it was in fact, this momentous occasion of discovering that only one bull was needed to inseminate many cows that Daly posits as the beginning of patriarchy. according to Daly, our brilliiant male logic went like this..."they only need one of us? well that means they can kill the rest of us (a killer's conclusion by the way- you only propose what you already know) and so men decided to get together in groups and oppress women to insure their own survival in the face of such overwheliming magic and power that woman had. i don't agree with all of this but Daly puts is ot there in a wonderful way and her insights are well worth looking into here.
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Re: two pet peaves
Sat, March 12, 2005 - 6:26 PMi wish you had been in that class, Stupor Mundi :)
thank you thank you thank you
thank you :) -
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Re: two pet peaves
Sat, March 12, 2005 - 8:03 PMFreckly - would you say something about what it is in Butler's view that rings for you? I very much respect your opinion and Stupor's opinion, and I would love to know what you see in it. -
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Unsu...
Re: two pet peaves
Sun, March 13, 2005 - 3:35 PMWhat I found helpful in Butler's work was that she challenged much of the blind self-righteousness that has been promoted by feminist thought and showed how feminists were actually reinforcing the foundationalist identity (i.e., 'not-man') that patriarchy had constructed. "...the feminist subject turns out to be discursively constituted by the very political system that is supposed to facilitate its emancipation."
She argues that gender is much more complicated ('gender is always performative') as opposed to a static-universal 'WOMAN' point of view. It sounded to me that Freckly's prof had figured out exactly what this monolithic uber-WOMAN was and chastizes Freckly cuz *she* was questioning HIS definition of it...
"In other words, the insistence upon the coherence and unity of the category of women has effectively refused the multiplicity of cultural, social, and political intersections in which the concrete array of "women" are constructed."
Butler's work doesn't challenge the existence of binaries, but rather subscribing to a binary identity -- that was formed under a certian political/power context -- in order to attempt to change the relationship/identity.
That's my take on her anyways... -
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Re: two pet peaves
Mon, March 14, 2005 - 5:00 PMOh - I see. You were replying to Freckly's post from a while ago.
I get it now!
Muchas gracias.
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 16, 2005 - 10:18 AMi LOVE intelligent, well-expressed people! Y'all are wonderful.
since that horrible night, several other students have come with appreciation for that fact i voiced what they were also feeling.
i think gender approaches to TEACHING composition (not literary criticism) limit students. i favor a more universal approach for transfering knowledge and exploring information in the classroom. gender studies are not invaluable by any means, but for freshmen learning to write at a new level, i believe that they are too easily silenced and intimidated by less universal approaches.
i feel we should view any approach as something that is not static, othewise we get bogged down in dogmas. semantics is enough of a challenge.
hugs all 'round! -
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, March 16, 2005 - 11:21 AMLet's say one could take two extreme positions, and we must weave between these Scylla and Charibdis. I'd like to illustrate them with two parables.
In Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly" he recounts an interesting parable about a society in which there is just one law, which everyone breaks all the time. The one policeman dutifully fills out citations, citing the one law on the books, and everyone is meted out the same punishment: death. Let's say this represents the most extreme view of universals imaginable - there is one concept for all particulars.
In J. L. Borges' story "Funes, the Memorius" the protagonist develops an odd form of aphasia in which he cannot perceive universals at all - he can only see particulars. By the end of the story, he was naming every rock. This represents the other extreme - one concept for each particular.
I assert the truth lies in the middle. Universals are necessary and damned useful, but tend to distort objects of experience if we take them too seriously. Of course there is not one 'female' that describes all women equally more, any more than there is one law. And of course, all women share some common attributes, just as all left-handed people share some common attributes.
What makes me uneasy about this material from Butler is my sense that she is not arguing for a middle ground, she is arguing against a putative extreme. In my view, it simply makes no sense on intellectual grounds to deny the transactional validity of 'male' or 'female'.
It is all-too-easy to overstate the case of statistically-anomylous outliers as a challenge to a 'static' concept of gender, but this is a specious argument. The fact that there are ambidextrous people does not mean we are wrong to think of people in terms of the static categories of 'right handed' or 'left handed'.
As a case for complexifying at the conceptual perimeters, where gender boundaries become less and less useful in their applicabilty, what I take to be Butler's thesis seems valid. It is not valid to generalize on that basis and argue that this pertains to gender issues in general.
My view is that the appropriate way to return to the useful middle ground is to adopt and encourage a pragmatist view of language, which treats language and concepts as tools we use to interpret reality. I actually feel on the basis of what little I have read of Butler's view that there is a shadow-realsim implicit in her perspective which undermines her argument.
It seems to me that rejecting the use of universals is simply part of the problem. If language is truly fluid, then what is the problem with sometimes referring to universal classes? We don't have to argue that that betrays a problem with theory - rather, it is a consequence of using language and concept. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 17, 2005 - 4:07 PMI agree, Barnaby. I was positing to my professor that the absolute ideas surrounding gender cannot be trusted in all cases. I just lacked any critical basis for my middle ground, and that article makes the points that level the field of that particular instance for me. it was a bad night.
i think you're right on, Barnaby, in that you find something useful in both approaches. I feel that way, too, so I won't take one singe approach in the classroom like feminist pedagogy, for instance. That is what i meant by using the term universal. perhaps i should have expressed myself more clearly. sorry about that. I meant that i'll do whatever is appropriate for each rhetorical situation in the classroom since teachers must remain flexible to be effective over time. i'll not exclude gender, but it won't be used as the foundation for my approach.
it is cool that we both want to validate opposing truths. isn't that at the heart of feminism? :) i'm seeing figure eights. weeeeee.
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Re: two pet peaves
Thu, March 17, 2005 - 6:59 PMI'm all about the Golden Mean.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: two pet peaves
Sat, March 19, 2005 - 9:42 AMHey B ~
>>What makes me uneasy about this material from Butler is my sense that she is not arguing for a middle ground, she is arguing against a putative extreme. In my view, it simply makes no sense on intellectual grounds to deny the transactional validity of 'male' or 'female'.
I can't really say I've read enough of Butler to be able to argue her theory but it seems to me that you are discussing the epistemological relevance/need for universals, and I believe her emphasis was on the political repercussions/contexts of universals. Her arguement against 'universals' was not in denying their role and utility - but the specific outcomes and power relations that result from using categories that were once thought of as 'natural'. I think it comes down to looking at the same thing from different intellectual traditions and questions: Philosophy (how do we understand social reality?) and Sociology (how does our understanding of social reality influence our place in the world?).
On a different thread - a man's not a man unless he lives in a cave...
"Cambridge, MA - Two years ago this month, Alan Lowenstein, associate professor of philosophy at Harvard University, came to a fateful conclusion. "I suddenly realized that the oppression of western technology extended to my own life," he explained. "That's when I got rid of my computer, threw away my Brooks Brothers suits, changed my name to Grok and moved into a cave."
A passionate critic of Euro-American "linear thought," Grok is one of a growing number of college professors around the nation who have relocated to caves, mud huts and makeshift sweat lodges to demonstrate their disdain for western culture and technology. For Grok, 44, the move to a cave was a natural step in his intellectual progression.
"My dissertation at Columbia synthesized the seminal works of Jacques Lacan, Derrida, and Michel Foucault," says Grok, referring to the influential French deconstructionist philosophers. "I was able to prove, conclusively, that conclusiveness is not conclusive."
The 1988 dissertation, entitled "Beyond the (Dis)Integration of Post-Modern Post-Toasties Pair 'o Dimes and Paradigms: Look at How Clever I Am," created a stir in academic circles and landed Lowenstein a prestigious teaching position at Harvard. From there, he honed his cutting-edge research.
"I began to deconstruct everything I could get my hands on," says Grok. "The Old Testament, Shakespeare, Dick and Jane, a 1967 J.C. Whitney catalog, the Boston phone book, you name it. I showed how everything is a lie, that everything could be deconstructed. Well, except Deconstruction, obviously."
When he earned tenure in 1991, Grok decided to broaden his philosophical research. "I realized that deconstructing literature was overly limiting. It was clear that other fields of inquiry could benefit from deconstruction."
It was then that Grok published a series of influential articles in which he deconstructed the sciences. "I initially showed that the so-called 'scientific method,' so treasured by the self-appointed high priests of science, was nothing but a bizarre ritual of the industrialist phallocracy," said Grok. "From there, it was a short intellectual leap to disprove the reality of the periodic tables, gravity and algebra."
Read the rest of it here: iowahawk.typepad.com/ -
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Re: two pet peaves
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 4:51 PMI must say I feel considerably more charitable towards Butler since I read her spirited defense of Derrida;
www.humanities.uci.edu/rememb...ith.htm
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 11:14 AMOne of my pet peeves is seeing "peeves" misspelled.
:-) Sorry, could't resist.
Otherwise, I'm hoping to make some sense of the Existentialists I didn't understand in French 104 25 years ago. I have a master's degree in theology and I'm certifiably smart; you'd think I'd get philosophy right away, but I don't.
Right on re: misunderstandings of Postmodernism! Especially by Evangelicals and other conservatives... Ugh! -
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 11:15 AMAnother of my pet peeves is seeing "couldn't" misspelled... Expecially wen its in my oan riting! -
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Re: two pet peaves
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 11:40 AM> One of my pet peeves is seeing "peeves" misspelled.
That's been embarassing me since I first posted the rant that started this thread.....
Oh well. Humility is the great teacher.
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